Five Marketing Attribution Stakeholder Personas…Which One Are You?

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Today Jeremy and Sameer will discuss the five types of marketing attribution stakeholders, their views on marketing attribution and how you can work with them. We will give you a detailed view of the approach and methodologies that has worked for us to overcome organizational challenges when leading marketing attribution conversation. We will also leave you with questions and ideas on how to work with different stakeholders and close gaps. Listen and implement the techniques and tips on implementing and managing organization wide attribution platforms and solutions.

Five Marketing Attribution Stakeholder Personas…Which One Are You?

Show Notes:
analyticspersonas.mp3

[spp-timestamp time="00:00:13"] Thank you for joining the six day podcast series that focuses on big data and analytics and the latest trends and digital world. I’m your cohost Jeremy Robertson with me always is my cohost Amir Khan. Hey Hey Jeremy how’s it going. Good. Happy Easter. Hard as guys go for egg hunting or anything like that. We did. You know everybody has their kind of rare religious you know practices that they do in they’re their traditions and stuff and for us our tradition at our houses eating a lot. So we basically have family yeah we have family come over we just eat and so yeah luckily I tried something new this year I tried deviled eggs. I’ve never made deviled eggs before and I tried them and they were pretty good. I had some good reviews from three random people and for me three random people from you know giving good reviews. With the amount of people there it’s statistically significant. So count. Right. So yeah I think today we get a really cool topic. So this is one I know sumir that you deal with kind of on a daily basis is a great topic that you came up with you know 5 marketing attribution persona’s Exactly. Yeah exactly. Get the cool thing. When we talk about persona’s we’re not talking about just the marketing people we’re talking about anybody there’s a stakeholder within the company who has there is a stakeholder of the marketing and distribution process or the data or the output or so on who we’re going to discuss these five personas and how you can deal with them as a marketer.

[spp-timestamp time="00:02:01"] Yeah absolutely and to add to add to that and exactly you’re saying Jeremy the thought process behind this topic for today which is five marketing attribution personas. Which one are you. Is the whole idea behind when someone tries to implement a marketing analytics or marketing technology like an attribute in technology in the organization. The there are different types of personalities that you yes. You know there are different types of people in the organization that you deal with. And this is the whole idea where we’re trying to say is how do you deal with them how do you talk to them. What are the things that you mention to them. What are the important questions that come up. And also more importantly what type of people are you working in. What is that thought process where they’re coming from. So it’s I think it’s going to be a useful Tawfiq part marketing analytics professional and marketing technology professionals to keep in mind and approach their organizations and work with the stakeholders in a very thoughtful way. So one thing we’re going to our disclaimer here is that we’re saying when we say deal with these people we’re not saying in any way or we’re not condoning the way to shut these people up. That is not what we’re trying to say. We’re trying to say here is how to best work with them because everybody’s going to have their own thoughts and ideas in the way of doing business just because of their background or their role or whatever it is how to best work with these people so you can come out with a a joint solution that’s beneficial for all people.

[spp-timestamp time="00:03:32"] Absolutely. So murmured dealing with is not a bad thing. Chen does that at all about not trying to say put him into a room he get a whole bunch of data and walk away and lock the door. OK so to start number one so start again five market intrusion persona’s which one are you. The first one we’re going to talk about is the linear thinker. So you know as Samir would describe someone who does not put their vote for anything and believes all channels play a similar role. So first let’s talk about what’s wrong with us. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s just you know one way or the other. Yes. So there are different types of people in that linear thinker is one of the personas of a stakeholder where they’re they’re mostly concerned about every channel has some sort of equal vote in the development of an opportunity or creation of revenue. So there are there is someone who can say OK every channel from start to finish is equally important. And I don’t think we should put one channel above the other in the journey of the visitor. Like let’s say if they come from a paid ad and they went to a you know they join the Web the and then eventually they go to an event and they probably participated in some type of offline marketing activities and then eventually they got to sales of or they got converted to an opportunity or closed deal for a linear thinker. It becomes a natural fit that every single of these touches are equal Exactly. So that’s how they feel.

[spp-timestamp time="00:05:07"] Here is another example too as a lot of people you know depending on what type of things you’re are if you’re linear thinker let’s say you go into the whole process throughout their journey they’re touching everything from no display and social and print and web and all this other stuff. But then there are certain channels that have very low return on investment or really low engagement for example display. You know the average display ad gets less than a 1 percent click right. Not really many that there’s not really a lot of people that actually click on it on display ads. But then we also are going to look at views through news we’re going to look at collectors are going to look at just mere impressions but people may actually give you know those along the way but the linear thinker will say no no no this has just as much power. Even if they were somewhere on the page as an impression and they ended up going to that page anyway they may want to give it an equal weight is that’s kind of what you’re saying. Right. Absolutely you nailed it. That’s exactly what I’m trying to say. Because I mean a lot of times you have one of those one pages that’s a really long scroll and let’s say you have a display that possibly has even a 5 percent 5 percent share of voice and it’s kind of hidden behind something and you know it may be negligible in their activity but yet it they say well maybe it showed up a times before they actually did something there was Eva’s view through. But they’re given equal weight.

[spp-timestamp time="00:06:36"] A lot of times you have to kind of you know you have to think twice about those things so how do you work with those people so I think what would be the best solution if somebody if you’re in a meeting. And I think what we could do today is maybe talk about in a situation where how do you respond to these people when you’re in a meeting and they start asking that question like oh you shouldn’t every channel have the same weight. What do you what do you say. Yeah that’s a great point and that’s exactly how I would relate to is the example that you get about display. Like not everyone clicks a display ad and there is a certain component which is of view through a component from a display ad that could probably inflate the attributes that we’re going to display. The other part of that is because in a journey of the visitor there’s always going to be multiple touch points and if you think about like you know without worrying about the data and drilling down to the data too much the thought behind that every single channel and input that goes into the visitor journey are equally important. It kind of makes sense to a certain point like okay that would make sense because I would say you know we’re word we’re working we’re doing all this hard work on developing our programs we’re doing this hard work in developing our media programs and we’re doing all this hard work in developing our sales teams and off line teams to be able to communicate with the customers more effectively. The question that comes to mind is how do you position which ones are better than the other.

[spp-timestamp time="00:08:04"] You know the way I would think about that is if you look at the customer journey there are lots of different events that happen. There are macro events and there are micro events the macro events are the ones that are going to be leading people to a specific action. So let’s say if you have a lead you know you get a lead and you’re working with someone and the lead goes to your Web site. Now that’s a microwave and they don’t take any action and they just go to the Web site they access your content and they go to the next step. But let’s say if that same lead now participates in a program you know maybe a web server and after watching the web are they immediately wanted to talk to your sales person. So that becomes an extremely important event. So when you compare the website Wisut where they essentially didn’t do anything and they just went to the website and downloaded the content but now they have decided to participate in a more advanced level of conversation. To me from an attribute standpoint that’s an important important program. I would generally score that program much higher than a website with it. I completely agree completely. Yes. I think what you have to do is basically what you’re saying is look at it holistically look at the entire story rather than segments within the story. Yeah absolutely. You know looking at the journey of the visit or looking at the holistic view is something that I would talk to the linear thinker and we’ll tell them and it can explain to them like hey look you know show them the data.

[spp-timestamp time="00:09:35"] This is what the journey looks like. And then express your point why not every single marketing touchpoint is equal. Yeah I agree. Craig Hall so let us go on the next one. So first when we had a linear thinker. The second one is what we’re going to call the disconnected. So the way it’s described as someone you know who really doesn’t care about attribution just focuses on their programs. So ideally what type of person within the businesses you would you say this is just a program or an end to redefined programs as just somebody that owns one of their like a marketing channel or somebody that owns like a campaign series of campaigns or who is a person for generally I’ve seen the personality type where people are not worried about the attribution too much. Is there a different set of stakeholders. One could be like you said the program owner because they’re essentially focused only on their programs or maybe the only or their specific type of activities. The other side I’ve also seen is traditional marketers you know marketers who may not necessarily be junior program managers but also some very senior level people. But they have come from a traditional bank. They have always looked at marketing as you know maybe a whole bunch of online events and maybe doing some type of billboard advertising maybe doing all sorts of activities that you know typically a traditional marketer does.

[spp-timestamp time="00:11:04"] And when they come into the modern marketing world now when they’re dealing with a whole bunch of digital channels and interact with the offline channels and that interacts with a whole bunch of salespeople in partner channels it makes it more complex. So these types of personality they have a hard time rationalizing that hey all these other input may have a valid kind of an Malad milestone in customers journey. So they have really hard time figuring that piece out even though you present them the data they’re going to be very very sort of rigid in their Preciosa hey you know I really think this program works because I’m so OK so I guess for them. Is it more along the lines of they are not trusting the data because it’s not their data or is it or really it’s like a seaway where they’re all in looking after for themselves. I mean I. Because he got to think about it. How do you actually talk to these people. I mean the hard part is how do you have a conversation with these people without really one getting upset if you easily get upset or to think in how to why can we have these people actually participate in the conversation when all they care about is bringing the conversation back to themselves. That’s a great point. I think the two things that you mention is it’s not so much that they don’t trust the data. It’s more so that they are primarily focused on the programs that they end. Yeah. OK.

[spp-timestamp time="00:12:30"] So so for them it’s kind of a mindset shift you know they’re in a mindset of like hey I’ve been traditionally kind of wired in my brain to know that because I go to an event because I put that billboard ad or because I do some kind of offline activities I can see that with my own eyes and I can track that very easily compared to this more complex visitors journey that we see today. So for them the process is slow and steady educator kind of feeding them the information getting them access to the platform and allowing them to ask the questions but at the same time you want to put some type of milestones like you want to say OK you know for the next couple of months we’re going to spend time understanding the data looking at the data answering your specific questions. But at the end of the third month you know this is where we’re going to launch the new multichannel attribution platform. You know we want you to be ready by then and if we have any major questions any major hurdles that we want to overcome let’s all come together and let’s help you solve this. Yes. So we need to put a deadline in Intrinsa when we want to close the loop I actually had the same issue I was running a digital and marketing team back in the old company and it was it was exactly the same thing before I came in. There were marketers that individually ran their own channels. They had been running these channels for a few years before I arrived. And then come in as the leader of the team. You know they were really skeptical. I would say they were that bar persona being disconnected or not Barazan of that that marketing execution persona being disconnected and they worried about their program.

[spp-timestamp time="00:14:14"] So say for instance the person that ran print traditional print or the person that ran email Green at shows running e-mail across 13 different brands over 200 million emails a year which is a huge part of you know the bottom line to the company in the success of the company and the success of just really the whole journey of a marketer where the customer. But for them they did not really see about the effects of their channel within the attribution and how their program affected others and they just wanted to focus on theirs. So when I did as I realized that I asked a lot of questions and not in a way where they saw that I was probing but I asked a lot of questions to really figure out their understanding of the correlate the channels the channels that that that touched their channel before their channel within the journey and after their channel within the journey to see what they knew about those channels and they discovered that they did not have a strong sense or understanding how those channels worked and they didn’t really know what it meant to be successful or not. So I think it comes back to a point of saying maybe they just are unaware of marketing channels and don’t have a lot of experience with those. So a lot of times it’s easy to be disconnected and fearful when you don’t understand something. Right. Yeah absolutely. That’s exactly what it is. I think it’s a knowledge gap. Yes. So what you as a marketing technology marking attribution professional have to work with them and kind of explain them and educate them. So this is what I did every two weeks on a Friday. What I did is I had the team I catered lunch for the team.

[spp-timestamp time="00:15:59"] And from 11 to 1 for two hours we did a training session and every two weeks I picked a different topic. And we trained on best practices and knowledge base. You know looking at data we looked at lingo everything haven’t had any examples in the marketplace of how those channels work do we educate each other so there’s a lot of people who didn’t know anything about you know about SBL or how PPC worked you know how Google ad which work. So we went through and walked through those things we talked about you know you know anything from you know what is customer lifetime value to you know what are the effects of social media and how it has an indirect effect on the bottom line and so on. So we did this for about four months consistently a different topics over those four months. And you would be amazed at the amount of progress and the way the conversation change within our channels. Absolutely and that’s fantastic that’s a very good example for our listeners because that just takes the you know kind of rubber hitting the road and showing you exactly how this needs to be done. So yeah it wasn’t always me it was somebody who stood up and said I want to teach everybody else about my channel. So I think that’s a great way to do it. That is cool. So is going number three. So first one was linear thinker. Second is disconnected the third one we call it the flaw star. So someone who always like someone who always finds problems with the attribution logic without providing a solution.

[spp-timestamp time="00:17:34"] So these are I’m sure I don’t even have to describe what these people are. Everybody is. It’s like they’re the devil’s advocate. It has come across them. How do you talk to these people. So this is the one that you were earlier mentioning the ones that have problems with the data it’s data and the logic. So first off they personally feel that when there were a multi-channel or mass scale attribution platform is implemented the logic always is going to have an issue. It’s not going to be 100 percent perfect and the other types of people they’re going to feel like the data that is feeding that is coming out of the attribution is not going to be 100 percent accurate which I’m going to tell you know in the front of everyone is like hey you’re absolutely right. The attribution is not meant to be 100 percent accurate. The data that’s coming out will be out of the attribution is not meant to be 100 percent accurate but the philosophy in analytics and you go talk to any of the people who are involved themselves in analytics you know any of the people who have written books about it are all going to say as long as you have that a confidence interval where you feel really good about the data that you can take an action you have a solid competent index and there are lots of different statistical way to measure the confidence index of the data. But as long as you have a confidence index you should move forward with it. There is no need for kind of splitting hairs and doing analysis and paralysis to the point that you’re not taking action on the data.

[spp-timestamp time="00:19:07"] So that’s been my philosophy is to trust and the confidence index talk to these people and say hey I did the confidence in this analysis and here’s how confident we are in the data and the attribution logic. Now let’s move forward and if there are any other things that are unique finally and let’s kind of resolve that but we feel really good about the data and will let us take a step back or invest. Can you define what a confidence index is because we want to make sure that everybody understands when you when you got something good to say they understand exactly what you’re talking about. Yeah a confident next as I said there are multiple ways to measure it but simply put it’s a statistical measure to tell you whether or not your attribution logic and the data is good enough for you. OK so let’s it’s very simple example let’s say people do AB testing. You know they are testing a world in a of the web page versus of words and be the web page and let’s say if you’re using a solution like an optimized Li or Google you know Google experiments and what do these platforms are automatically built to tell you which one of those a versus B are performing better based on the results you’re needing.

[spp-timestamp time="00:20:19"] So if your result is come someone coming to your website and filling out a contact form or maybe someone clicking a particular link and then if you look at these solutions like optimized We will tell you with a very high degree of confidence the option a is winner because it outperform option B by X percentage and you to find whatever the person like maybe 30 percent is better for you maybe 40 percent is better for you. So all the underlying logic for determining the confidence index is for you. So confidence X is a very simple measure to understand which one is performing better and how confident you are in that data. Sounds sounds pretty easy understand. OK. So OK so let’s say you’re in a conversation with somebody and let’s go back to kind of what we have been going over for each one year and you’re in a meeting and there’s obviously all the stakeholders are in there and sometimes within the personality of this person the flaw star they will want to say something to try to either prove to leadership or prove to other people in the room that they are concerned because they just want to call things out there are people that do it all the time don’t be frustrated. Right. There are people to do this all the time. What is something you say when somebody says let’s say a roleplay here. If I were to say if you were to come up with some data and I would say yes sumir but I don’t really understand this what you’re trying to say is that this data you know is part of the attribution logic and what you’re trying to do is tell me that that your data is really showing that it truly affected the purchase and average order value went out but yet you’re telling me that my channel is causing problems here because our conversion rates are lower. I just don’t believe you.

[spp-timestamp time="00:22:08"] Yeah I think first off when I was talking to a person who is already skeptical about the attribution logic and data I would definitely not point them the problems about the way out. Well first I’m sorry but you’re wrong. Right. Generally speaking I would probably setup a one on one time and tell that question and say hey you know why don’t we set up a one on one time and discuss this in more detail and when I get an opportunity a chance to talk to them I will walk them through the sort of the attribution logic that we were set with the way attribution is set up that type of models that we’re using for attribution and the logic behind and the reasoning behind the model and get them to add their input because I want them to feel the ownership of the process of attributes. I want them to be able to say hey I was one of the person that actually helped in implementing the multichannel attribution plan. So that’s where I’m going to get them to be participating in the team and providing the input and becoming more aware of the situation. So specifically like their dairy data questions and their logical questions Wil’s kind of take a backseat because now they’re going to know like OK how it works that’s how that aid is coming through and if there are any major problems like some organizations have a major data issues where their data itself is not correct. So when that data is not correct and if you feed that data into an attribute platform obviously you’re not going to get correct results.

[spp-timestamp time="00:23:41"] Those are a very kind of outliers I would saying but generally speaking if your data is good and usable are you using good sound logic you’re taking stakeholders input and building your attribution platform then you are going to be in a much better position getting the Flosse star to sort of participate in conversation with you and a really good point to move to point calk. So we got three of them right we the linear thinker the disconnected the flaw start lets talk about number four. Number four is a common Channel. I would I would say out of anything maybe would be number three is the person just doesn’t really agree as we just talked about maybe because. Or the disconnect just because they’re unfamiliar with the other channels and how they work so it’s easy to just say there there’s something wrong. But the fourth one I think is more common and it comes from traditional marketers marketers who really haven’t progressed and the idea of approbation is called The Point blanker. So they only believe attribution like first touch or last touch or touch is really the key to success. And these are people who put all their eggs in one basket by saying well listen I don’t care what you think with regards to conversion or attribution. They went to Google first and they say what 83 percent of people go to Google first a search. It was their first click on that page ad. That should give all the credit. What do you think about that. Yeah this is exactly like you framed it. These are the people who have been using traditional attribution platforms you know like a Google analytics or an Adobe analytics or core metrics where most of these platforms even prior to the these channels are these platforms embedding the multichannel attribution you know to their platform.

[spp-timestamp time="00:25:31"] And they have been developed on the scale of either first stage last Herge you know generally speaking you’re going to say Google will have some type of first touch attribution. Adobe analytics will have first approbation. Some of these platforms will have a native attribution and that will give you the data so people who have been using these platforms diligently and they have kind of been sort of born and brought up in this platform. They will feel the need for only having a point solution for attribution. But as the marketing channels as the marketing community and as a user base they become mature they are not going to rely on one aspect or one asset. They’re not going to rely on Google search they’re not just going to rely on and offline activity they’re not just going to rely on a sales conversation they’re going to rely on multiple things to make a buying decision. And this is more important in a B2B technology order B2B space in general when people are buying a larger solution to their problem that involves multiple stakeholders that involve a higher average order value. And that is a larger contract for those specific purchase and even for simple purchase people will use their cell phone. They’re going to use their computers. They’re going to look at their review sites they’re going across it against other e-commerce provider. So there’s a multiple points in the journey of the visitor where the old school method will still call them as old school even though that’s a modern digital attribution is no longer valid. Because you need a multi-channel a multipoint attribution platform and the solution to answer the questions.

[spp-timestamp time="00:27:11"] I completely agree and I was just sitting there thinking I was in a conversation. How would say maybe even eight months ago as recently as eight months ago with somebody about this and they talk to me about the idea first touch and last touch and said Well no it’s we’ve got to put all of her money into Google. You know how to do your marketing mix modeling if you don’t have enough money. Guba because usually Google’s a first. They talked about the sales cycle and the awareness stage or they go to Google they search first and then they want to come back and do their final price comparison to go to Google to do price comparison and so on. So first click last click. So what I typically do is walk thans through a bar journey and look at all the different places and within that buyers journey you know there are so many different interactions with the brand on so many different types of content and so many different ways that if those weren’t there you know yes you may still get the end result they still may purchase at the end looking at those but they didn’t go through those channels and do those things. Your results are going to be a little bit different. Yeah and it’s interesting because you know at some point of time even I was like that. I was personally because I was using these traditional analytics platform and they were giving me a one point solution.

[spp-timestamp time="00:28:29"] I was thinking in that way as well I was point blank or because I was thinking OK first started because you know I’m running this media program and my team is doing a great job. And he drove a whole bunch of opportunities from it so we should give credit to the media program because they’re the first. But this is like you know a long time probably years or years ago. Now we have the luxury we have the ability even in Google Analytics you have a multichannel attribution embedded into the platform. Although it’s not that as sophisticated as I would want it to be but you still have a mold Hepworth’s solution in Adobe if you have a multiple and solution the solution that I personally prefer is called visible which is a true multichannel mold had tribunal platform which I would definitely highly recommend to our listeners if you’re reviewing if you’re listening to a podcast you should go check visible out the BBC bialy. So that’s what I would prefer is having a robust platform that is that allows you to do a multi-channel at attribution and multichannel analytics. Back in 2011 sumir you and I actually were trying to prove somebody wrong. When you and I were doing we were using core metrics and we were trying to show the value of social media. You remember this one. Yeah yeah. We went back to our leadership and we said hey we need to invest money in social media. And the first thing they said well you guys are already investing 60 percent of the total marketing budget into paid search with Google. Why would you want to invest in social media. I don’t really see how do you expect for me to think that somebody likes what are your Facebook posts and then they come and buy from them.

[spp-timestamp time="00:30:11"] So you know the. Right. So we went to core metrics and we looked at two different channels where we looked at we looked at two different journeys. We did one journey that had no social media in there and all we did was look at the first click and the last click which is typically Google and something else and then we showed social media within those journeys and talked about how if you look at the full attribution of all the different channels and how social media is a part of that and how social media helps to drive an increased value at the end you know you’ll be able to see the G can’t just look at the first and the last click. You have to look at everything in between. And what we are able to find out is that at the end of the day you know with looking at multiple channels the fact that other people go to different channels and social media was a big part of that. It had a higher average order but at the end of the day the first the second Bisan or second his third visit was faster. And they spent more time on the Web site. Remember that one. Yeah absolutely. Remember and that’s exactly a great example of how a single point solution is no longer viable for attribution analysis or even marketing performance analysis. Yeah so we actually took that presentation with a bunch of graphs in the room and they said well okay I guess you guys proved your point. So in fact got funded to build the entire social media marketing team. So that was a great example. That’s fantastic.

[spp-timestamp time="00:31:40"] Okay so let’s go to the fifth one so we talked about linear thinker the disconnect disconnected the flossed are the point blanker and Dingding number five this is what we all aspire to be. We call it the progressor. So this is someone who likes to take risks test various models and pushes organization to modern attribution thinking and practice. So similar in your mind. Tell me about yourself right now. Tell me tell me about who this person is. So this is a person that is exactly as you frame Jeremy. This is someone who understands the nuances of modern marketing and this is the person who is keenly interested in marketing performance management marketing budget management who’s thinking in a much more broader way that it’s not just marketing but there’s also sales input. There is a partnering input that’s coming into built what we call is the buyers journey the buyer is going to interact with multi high departmental organization multiple stakeholders multiple people multiple assets.

[spp-timestamp time="00:32:47"] So for a buyer who is already thinking much more broadly the marketer needs thing broadly as well the marketer needs to apply discipline of better marketing performance management attribution management to their work and the progress her is a person who exactly you said Jummy we all aspire to be we want to be this person because this is a person that is pushing the organization in it and preventing them from limiting beliefs preventing them from thinking in a solution going past the hurdle of data challenges and focusing on the outcomes using advanced statistical methodologies confidence index to drive past data combinations and this is exactly what we have listed as the number five is a much more advanced version of a marking attribution stakeholder persona that can move the organization in the right direction. Okay. So I got I got a tough question for you. So let’s do two different scenarios. First scenario is you are the progressor but you’ve been at the company a long time and you went to this great conference or you started listening to this amazing podcast told analysts today and you got two guys named smearing Jeremy and your mind was blown near like oh my gosh this is how I should be I’m the progressor. I should start taking more risks. I should start doing some you know testing models and I really want to push more organization and I really think that modern attributes is a way to go. How do I go back to my company and how do I get them to think the same way I do now. That’s that’s a very good question and it definitely makes me think a lot about the approach that someone should take. The first half a person who is aspiring to become the procrastinator they need to understand where they are currently go look at the for attribution persona that we mentioned. You know are you a linear thinker. Are you the one that is disconnected. Are you in this is somebody that already has been work let’s say been there for two years already and you already have a voice within the company. How do you start changing people’s mind if you’ve been thinking another way before. Right.

[spp-timestamp time="00:35:09"] So I think the first thing I would say is is going to is first you change your thinking because after becoming progressor it’s a process it’s a journey. You have to educate yourself. You have to go spend time with someone who is already doing this you know go look on LinkedIn and find someone who is heading the marking analytics departments or marketing operations departments and have a chat with them have a conversation with them. The second option is to go listen to some of the podcasts like one of our podcasts or others podcasts who are really doing some you know deep work on attribution and what. Read books about it. Go talk to vendors. There are some really good Wenders in the market they’re offering multichannel attribution platform. Go look at their content download white papers. Attend webinar so the first part of the process to educate yourself and then once you start educating yourself and you understand the reasoning behind the progressive persona. Then you start having these conversations internally with your boss with your direct reports with your peer groups and talking to them about hey you know we’re doing this and we’re doing this in a way that is not going to be beneficial to the organization in the long run. It is not a scalable solution. We need to start thinking about having a scalable attribution platform that allows us to measure the buyers journey and I’ve done some homework. You know I’ve done some research here is the stuff that I’ve come up with.

[spp-timestamp time="00:36:37"] Let’s have a conversation and I’m going to walk you guys through the process and if you want help our partners or Wenders like kind of bring them on for a quick conversation with these stakeholders you develop that mindset and develop the mindset and you show some data shows some backing like hey if we implement a multichannel attribution platform then you’re going to get X Y Z and you’re going to see the certain types of business results that we’re not seeing right now. We’re going to improve marketing performance. Then you get on board to purchasing a technology or a solution that can help you. Okay. I love it. Now let’s do a different one. It’s very similar but different let’s say you just got hired into a new job you’re getting ready to start a new job today Monday and you’re walking in and every single person in the company is one of the first four. Right. Linear thinker disconnected the flaw start point blinker you are the progressor in the room in that first meeting. How do you how do you start to bring this up do you wait for a meeting do you go individually and talk to them in their offices. How do you get people to think the way you do. You know this is a tough one. A lot of people starting new jobs and they said Everybody’s very old school. How do you get in there any change. How do you change things. Yeah I think the thing that especially if they’re starting a new job. My personal opinion is to not to minimize the amount of time you say this is how I did in my past life or this is how I did in my previous company because that is one thing that annoys a lot of people. And I’ve seen that consistently.

[spp-timestamp time="00:38:14"] So the way you frame that is hey I know we’re doing things in a certain way. What if we try to do it in a different way you know frame the conversation as if you’re trying to make them participate in the analytics maturity process instead of just keep bringing like Hey you’re the smartest person in the room and then you did it differently previously and it needs to be done. So tell them like hey this is what I think is if we try it would be beneficial. And then you back your conversation with data. You say the reason why I say we should try it because this is what my observation have been and I could be completely wrong. I’m I’m a brand new person here. But you know as I’m learning I have you know some suggestions. And I think we should look at it differently. What do you guys think with an open ended question. Automatically you’re going to have people have their guards drawn up and with these types of question you’re going to peers through that and you’re going to have a very healthy conversation instead of worrying about the composition conversation we’re. No no no we don’t. We do things differently our organization is Larios smaller x y z. I like it. I like it. I I have no comments. I think I would do exactly the same and it is annoying. There is a lot of people. The first thing is to say Well at this place we used to do this and I say Well dude you don’t work there anymore. You work here. So you’re going to hear a lot. We’ve always done it this way.

[spp-timestamp time="00:39:41"] It’s just something you have to deal with and something you have to learn how to work with. But I think today has been absolutely cool. Fantastic. These are great topics. A lot of times people you know they’re so focused on trying to change and make a difference and and try to read about best practices in some but yet they neglect the idea that it takes a whole team that takes a whole company sometimes or division in order to make change and you yourself cannot make change. You have to work with different types of people and been able to recognize who these people are and how they think and how to communicate with them is a lot of times your number one key to success. And I would say one small thing and it is kind of a pitch so I’m presenting at the Martek conference on April 25th on the topic of the nuts and bolts of implementing organizational wide attribution using marketing technology. So if anyone wants to learn and deep dive into how to implement an organizational wide attribution or attribution platform I look forward to having you at the Martek conference while I’m actually speaking in a conference next week but not as cool as yours so I’ll save up. I’m actually I am actually going to the Mirror Direct 1820 18 conference of the MDX 18. It’s actually in Austin at the Four Seasons which I’m pretty excited about. I get to speak to a roomful of marketers on three critical capabilities to support the customer journey and personalization and so they’re excited about that topic. Absolutely yes. Everyone who’s listening you know you happen to be in Austin.

[spp-timestamp time="00:41:21"] Apparently I’m going to be in Austin Jeremy. So let’s let’s. This is exciting. Yes Samir and I are really cool and plus we like to eat. So I always feel pretty good a thought very cool. Thank you again guys this has been fantastic. Also please keep up the communication. We love reviews we love feedback we love requests if you do have a company you want us to interview. Go for it. We’ve had some great feedback on that and as always without you guys and our listeners we wouldn’t be doing this. So thank you again and we’ll see you guys.

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